Convenient Customer Feedback in Real Time Featuring Adam Alfia Transcript

Whether you’re buying benches, bread makers, or bottles of bubble bath, paying for business expenses with an AmEx Blue Business Cash Card can be rewarding. You’ll earn 2% cash back as a statement credit on your first $50,000 in purchases per year and 1% after that, so you get rewarded for getting what you need for your business. Terms apply. Learn more at AmericanExpress.com/BusinessCash. AmEx Blue Business Cash, built for business by American Express.

Shep Hyken: Welcome to Amazing Business Radio with best-selling author and customer service and business expert Shep Hyken, who shares ideas with some of the smartest thinkers in business to help make you more successful in your professional and personal life.

This is Amazing Business Radio with Shep Hyken. Hello everybody, it’s Shep Hyken. We’re back on Amazing Business Radio. We have another great guest today, Adam Alfia. He is the founder, along with his brother Kfir Alfia, of Real Time Feedback. So we’re going to be talking about feedback, customer service, customer experience, and the importance of it all. That’s what we do on Amazing Business Radio.

Before we get into the interview, a couple of quick announcements. If you’ve got an amazing story, please jump onto the social channels and share it with us. And if you’ve got a question, use the hashtag #AskShep pretty much everywhere, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, you name it, I’m there. If you leave the question, I’ll either answer it there, on my blog, or on my TV show, which is Be Amazing or Go Home. You can find those episodes on Amazon Prime, Roku, Apple TV, and you can also go to BeAmazing.tv.

All right, we’re jumping into it. This is going to be good today because we’ve got somebody that has a hospitality background, and if you’ve heard me over the years, you know that I love the hospitality mentality.

Adam Alfia is the co-founder of the restaurant chain Shell Shack. He owns nightclubs, and he had a pizza chain. But right now we’re talking about one of his companies, which is Real Time Feedback.

Adam, welcome to Amazing Business Radio.

Adam Alfia: Thanks, Shep. I appreciate it.

Shep Hyken: So we have a lot to talk about in a short period of time, and you’ve got a lot to say. Real Time Feedback is exactly what it means. It’s the ability for customers to leave feedback in real time, and we’ll talk more about that later on. But 1 of the comments you made in the talking points you provided me was that there is a slow death of customer service. I’d love to hear what you mean by that.

Adam Alfia: Well, if you’ve been to brick-and-mortar places in the last 10 years, maybe even 15 years, you notice that the old Neiman Marcus-style service of the day is fading. Here in Dallas there’s an auto group called Sewell Auto Group. Carl Sewell wrote the book Customers for Life.

With not only the economy, but the workplace environment the way it is, especially with my kids’ generation, people really don’t come out of high school or college with a clear idea of what they want to do for the rest of their lives. They’re kind of like a leaf blowing in the wind, jumping from job to job. So they often don’t have a vested interest in the jobs they work to really go above and beyond and build strong relationships with the customer base they interact with.

I came from the automotive industry. I had a chain of auto repair facilities here in Dallas. Even to this day, and it’s been about 20 years since I sold that chain, I still see customers around Dallas and they say, “Hey, that’s Adam. That’s the guy who used to take care of my cars for years.” You just don’t see a lot of that anymore.

When you walk into restaurants, retail stores, or even dealerships, there’s such a huge turnover of employees that those kinds of long-term relationships are becoming rare. I hate to say obsolete, but in many cases they are. When you do see that kind of relationship, it’s usually an older employee who has been there forever. You don’t see the younger generation building those relationships the way they used to. And customer service becomes a byproduct of that, because there isn’t always that vested interest in really taking care of the customer like employees of past generations often did.

Shep Hyken: And I think part of that is knowing that your employees are going to leave you in a short period of time. There’s that cycle of how much do you want to invest in an employee you know isn’t going to be there. Which is flawed thinking, because anytime you put somebody that’s not prepared on the front line, regardless of how long they’ve been there, that person is the face of your brand in that moment. I call that the awesome responsibility.

You said a lot there that I want to unpack. First of all, you’re right. Our parents, and you mentioned you’ve been in business for over 20 years, so we’re assuming you’re probably at least in your 40s, maybe older, but the point is our parents often got a job and stayed there until retirement unless they were entrepreneurial.

Today it’s expected that employees are going to churn for whatever reason. Maybe it’s their path to where they want to be. Maybe it’s their first job and they realize they’ll probably work for 3 or 4 companies. The problem with that is, if we can’t keep good people, it’s impossible to create consistency unless we have a good training program.

And to your point about kids coming out of school, wouldn’t it be nice if in high school there was a course on how to deliver good service? It wouldn’t matter if you were in retail, hospitality, or B2B. Wouldn’t it be nice if students took that course?

We’ve been working on a training system, an on-demand, virtual, video-based training system, with inner-city groups to provide service training at no charge to high school seniors getting ready to interview for jobs, or to college students preparing for summer jobs or full-time jobs. They go through the program, get a certificate of completion, and can show it on their resume. What a great resume booster that would be.

Any thoughts on that? Does that resonate with you?

Adam Alfia: Exactly. One of the things I always notice is that this generation grew up behind cell phones. We call them keyboard warriors. They’ll go onto social media and have a lot to say, but if you get them into a face-to-face environment and ask, “What do you think about my service? Give me your feedback,” they freeze. They don’t know how to have that communication where they’re making a complaint face to face.

One of the greatest things I always taught all my employees was reading body language and reading the situation. If you’re a waiter, for example, and you walk up to a table and somebody says they’re done but half their plate is still full or more, ask that customer a question. “Did you not enjoy your food? Can I get you something else?” Make that observation and turn it into an interaction. The customer may not be trying to tell you something directly, but something is going on.

If somebody orders a plate of food and doesn’t finish it, it’s usually for a reason. Or if you’re looking at a customer who’s obviously unhappy, or they’re looking around like they’re trying to find a waiter or manager, approach them. They’re trying to communicate something but may be too afraid to raise their hand or get up.

There are a few restaurants here in Dallas, and I’m sure in every city, that really stand out as far as customer service and customer experience. Those are the restaurants where everybody works as a team. It’s not “my table” and “your table.” If you’re walking by and somebody’s glass is almost empty, stop and fill it up. It’s simple. But a lot of organizations and employees don’t have that mentality that everyone is working together to make the customer happy.

Shep Hyken: Great line here from one of your colleagues, Mike Terrell, who says, “Give them help before they Yelp.”

Adam Alfia: Exactly. When we first started the company, that was a big mantra here at the office.

One of the things we did in our restaurants was implement a policy that a manager had to touch every table before that customer left. Even then, when a manager walked by, introduced themselves, and asked, “Hey, I’m the manager here. How’s everything? Is everything okay?” customers would still avoid the confrontation. A lot of times they still wouldn’t say, “Yeah, I’m having an issue with this or that.” Then they’d leave the restaurant and post a negative review. That drove me crazy.

So my brother and I would talk for hours about how to get customers to engage with us and tell us the truth. We finally came up with, let’s build a feedback loop where customers don’t have to engage a manager face to face. It’s QR-code based, and anytime they want, they can scan a code.

We really built the program initially for internal use because we have another technology company and put our developers on it. We found that customers were much more willing to give feedback digitally than in person. The feedback platform was really successful in our restaurants, and then we realized we had a business model. It’s been 3 years, and now we have over 50 arenas around the country using the platform, plus countless restaurants, grocery store chains, and retailers using it at their registers to let customers comment on how cashiers are doing.

Because if you go to a cashier nowadays, half of them are on their phones while checking you out. They’re completely disengaged. They don’t ask how your day is or how your experience has been. So now when you have a QR code and that employee knows you can scan it at any time and go directly to their manager, they take notice and they do a better job knowing that line of communication exists.

Shep Hyken: It’s a little bit of the watchdog effect. Knowing you’re being watched because customers now have that opportunity to rate or comment on the service. And something else you said, I love it. There are 2 points before we go to break.

Number 1, you need to be observant. It’s harder to be observant in a digital experience where you can’t see body language, but in a restaurant, if a server notices that a guest is finished but half the food isn’t eaten, I think it warrants the question, “Were you happy? Was there something wrong?” Maybe they just want to take it home. But you need to ask.

The second point is that word “fine.” That’s the default answer people give when they don’t want to make a comment. “How was everything?” “It was fine.” What does fine mean? Our listeners know when I say something like that, it’s the F-bomb of customer experience. It’s 4 letters, starts with F, and we don’t really know if it’s good or bad unless they put an adjective in front of it. “How’s that haircut?” “Mighty fine.” Okay, then it’s good. But if they just say “fine,” what does that really mean?

Kfir Alfia: If I may jump in?

Shep Hyken: Oh, we’ve got somebody from the outside jumping in. That is Kfir, Adam’s younger brother, it looks like.

Kfir Alfia: Hey, I’ll take that as a compliment. Thank you.

Shep Hyken: So what I’m going to do is take a short break, and when we come back, we’re going to talk about that line, “Give them help before they Yelp,” and then we’ll hear from both Kfir and Adam Alfia about what that means. So we’ll be right back on Amazing Business Radio. Don’t go away.

Hi, Shep Hyken, your customer service and experience expert, and I’m excited to tell you about my new book, I’ll Be Back: How to Get Customers to Come Back Again and Again. This book is packed with idea after idea on how to, just as the title implies, get your customers to come back.

In the book, you’ll learn that repeat customers aren’t always loyal customers. Both are great, but there’s a big difference. You’ll also learn about 10 reasons a customer may stop doing business with you and 3 reasons you would stop doing business with them. And 1 of my favorite lessons is a 6-step process for creating an “I’ll be back” strategy.

Of course, there’s much more. You’ll start getting more of your customers to say, “I’ll be back,” almost immediately. Just go to illbebackbook.com.

You’re listening to Amazing Business Radio with best-selling author and customer service and business expert Shep Hyken.

Shep Hyken: We’re back on Amazing Business Radio. We’re talking with Adam Alfia, but now we’ve added to the guest list his brother, Kfir. Am I saying that correctly?

Kfir Alfia: You’re saying it exactly correctly.

Shep Hyken: Perfect. I want to make sure. Isn’t that a shame when you try to pronounce somebody’s name and get it wrong? And I think there’s no shame in saying, “I want to make sure I pronounce it correctly.” That’s just part of customer service, isn’t it?

Kfir Alfia: Exactly. No, I appreciate that.

Shep Hyken: So you had a comment about Yelp that you wanted to make, right?

Kfir Alfia: Yeah. There’s an antagonistic relationship that Yelp has created between businesses and customers, unfortunately. A lot of times customers go to Yelp as a kind of revenge mechanism. “I had a bad experience, and now I’m going to make you look bad in front of everybody.”

There’s actually a certain type of person who will do that. Most people are not Yelpers. You go on Yelp and you’ll see there’s a vocal minority that are active there. Most people who have a bad experience just go home or tell their friends, but they don’t go online. They have no axe to grind. That’s actually the majority of dissatisfied customers. And one of the reasons we created this product is so we could serve that silent majority.

They just needed a simple and easy channel to communicate their issue. Most people are silently suffering. But if you make it really easy for them to let management know what’s going on, they’ll do it.

Shep Hyken: Yeah, and all the stats and facts going back to the late 1970s, when the Technical Assistance Research Program commissioned by the White House Office of Consumer Affairs did a study, everybody still quotes that 4% of customers who have a complaint actually make the complaint, and the rest don’t. That means you’ve got 96% of people out there not saying anything.

Social media has given people a microphone, and really a megaphone. There are companies that encourage you to go to Yelp or TripAdvisor because they know the reviews will be positive. But to your point, if somebody decides to seek revenge, and I love that you used that word, that’s where they go. They go public.

Even in B2B businesses that don’t have Yelp or TripAdvisor, there are forums where customers talk about you without going directly to you. So we need to make feedback easy. And I know that’s what your technology does. I don’t know if you agree or disagree with that, but my son is in a frontline business. He’s a musician, and he also runs a tour company in Nashville. He loves getting Yelp and TripAdvisor reviews because he knows they’re going to be positive. But to your point, if somebody decides to seek revenge, they’re going to public platforms because the company didn’t give them what they wanted when they asked the first time.

And if you make it hard to leave a comment directly, they go to the second place, which is social media, so they can broadcast it to everybody and hopefully get a response.

Adam Alfia: It’s not just leaving a comment. It’s also getting a response from the business.

Businesses should make it easy for customers to communicate issues. Most customers now don’t want to call a toll-free number. They don’t want to send you an email. They want to tell you what they have to say right now, in the moment, and they want you to respond and hopefully fix the issue.

For example, 1 of our verticals is grocery stores. As you know, across all industries, they’re having a hard time getting people to properly manage stores because of the big quit going on right now. So we developed QR codes they can put in places like the dairy department or produce department that actually ask customers for help. They say things like, “If you see any items near expiration, let our dairy manager know.”

Now customers can scan a QR code in the dairy department, take a picture of the yogurt that’s about to expire, and send it to the manager. The manager can respond and say, “Thanks for helping us out. I’ll make sure we get a fresh stock.” Now you’re using customers as your eyes and ears, because customers love helping businesses they patronize when you make it easy.

When I go into a grocery store chain I use all the time and there are carts left all over the parking lot or a dirty restroom, I’ll go find a manager and say something. But most customers won’t do that. If you put a QR code in the bathroom that says, “Let us know if this bathroom needs cleaning,” or a code outside that says, “Let us know if carts are left in the parking lot,” customers will tell you. If you make it easy for them, they’ll scan a code, say exactly what they want to say, and submit it. The managers get it in real time and can respond within seconds. It’s a beautiful thing when it works.

Shep Hyken: All right, you’ve just given me a second article idea, and that is that customer service is a team sport. You, the customer, and us, the company. Let’s work together to give you the best experience.

Use our technology, which in your case is Real Time Feedback, that allows somebody to share a comment in the middle of their experience. In the perfect world, somebody is going to be alerted to a problem and ideally cover it and take care of it before the customer ever gets to the checkout line in a grocery store, and definitely before they get out of the store. I think that’s brilliant.

I want to throw something else out there. There are some companies I’ve worked with that create feedback kiosks, like the HappyOrNot-style systems. For those unfamiliar, you’ve probably seen them in airports or elsewhere. It’s that little display with a smiley face, neutral face, and frown, and you just hit a button on the way out.

But wouldn’t it be nice to have that type of feedback mechanism in the middle of the experience, not on the way out? So you don’t get me after it’s all over, but while it’s happening. Hence, real-time feedback and real-time fixes, as opposed to waiting until the customer walks out the door.

Adam Alfia: Exactly. One of the problems with the smiley-face systems is that they tell you customer sentiment, but they don’t pinpoint the issue. It could be that they’re out of hand towels, but you don’t know that. It could be an overflowing toilet.

We actually work with a couple of airports right now to implement the feedback platform because with the smiley-face stations, 1, during a pandemic nobody wants to touch anything, and 2, with a QR code I can tell you exactly what the problem is and attach a picture or a video if I want to. So if there’s an overflowing toilet, I can take a picture or video, send it in, and expect a response from maintenance within seconds.

Shep Hyken: I love it.

Here’s a great quote, the idea of survey fatigue. This is not about surveys, it’s about feedback, but what are your comments about surveys?

Adam Alfia: Surveys certainly have their place in a corporate environment. They give corporations big-picture insights into how they’re doing holistically, but operationally, I don’t think they’re that useful at the location level in many cases.

I’ve probably filled out 500 surveys in the last few years because now I’m in the industry and I’m trying to learn what people are trying to measure. I don’t think I’ve ever filled out a survey and gotten a response from somebody saying, “Hey, you filled out a survey, I want to talk to you about it.” And I’ve never made a comment in a survey, whether it was for Gap or Krispy Kreme, and then walked back into the store and seen a meaningful operational change because of it.

Surveys are very much a 1-way street. I’m giving you 5 or 10 minutes of my time, giving you information, and unless you give me a coupon at the end, you’re really not giving me anything back. I’m contributing, but you’re not giving me anything in return.

Shep Hyken: And it drives me crazy. I just wrote an article titled Feedback Narcissism, which is all about how companies want to get feedback, but don’t want to use it properly.

I always do a cartoon every week, and in 1 cartoon I had a person standing next to a big trash can filled with crumpled-up pieces of paper, and someone asked, “What are you doing?” The answer was, “I’m going through all the feedback and throwing away the bad stuff because my boss only wants to hear the good things that are happening.”

But feedback is truly a gift. I believe operationalizing feedback, both good and bad, is really important. If you get bad feedback, get with the customer and fix the problem. Use it to make sure it doesn’t happen again. But if they give you a great example, why shouldn’t every customer experience that? Operationalize the good along with trying to mitigate the bad.

Adam Alfia: Exactly. It’s all data. If you’re not using the information your customers are giving you to make operational changes, then it’s all for nothing. You’re just going through the motions and creating the illusion that you care by giving out surveys. But if you don’t make any changes, what good is the feedback?

Shep Hyken: All right, we’re running out of time. I always ask the final question. Is there 1 nugget of information you want to share with our audience before we end our interview today?

Adam Alfia: Yes. 1 of the things we really try to teach customers who use our platform is that you cannot wait for customers to give you feedback on their own.

Whenever we launch a store, the number 1 thing we tell people is to ask your customers to scan the code and give you feedback, good or bad, because customers are lazy. Employees are lazy, and customers are also lazy. You have to ask them. Say, “Hey, do me a favor, scan that QR code and let my boss know how I did today.”

You wouldn’t believe the difference we see, especially in dealerships, between employees who ask for feedback and employees who don’t. The ones who ask can get 10 to 15 times the amount of feedback. So ask for feedback in the moment while the customer is there, and you’ll learn a lot more about your customer than you think.

Shep Hyken: Right. Now 2 things I want to add to that if it’s okay.

Number 1, when you ask for feedback, no strings attached. Don’t say, “Please rate me high because otherwise they’re going to take away my firstborn child,” or, “I’ll lose my job.” That’s what I hear from some car dealerships, and it becomes this guilt-driven request for good feedback. Let’s stay away from that behavior.

And number 2, when you tell your employees to ask for feedback, no strings attached there either. But they are going to act differently knowing they might be, for lack of a better word, graded on the experience. I used that word watchdog before. It really is helpful to know someone’s paying attention.

Adam Alfia: I actually read that article. It’s a great article.

Shep Hyken: Well, thank you.

Adam Alfia: I stole a couple of lines out of it, if you don’t mind.

Shep Hyken: I like that. Well, hey guys, you’re awesome.

So I’ll wrap it up by thanking Adam Alfia and Kfir Alfia for joining us on Amazing Business Radio. Thanks for your insights today.

Adam Alfia: Of course. Thank you for having us.

Shep Hyken: All right, everybody. That wraps up another episode of Amazing Business Radio. We’ll be back next week with another interview, and until that time, this is Shep Hyken reminding you to always be amazing.

This podcast is a part of the C-Suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit C-SuiteRadio.com.